Beta Touhou

Nazeo · « on May 17th, 2015, 11:13 PM »

Hihi, it's the people behind thcrap.

We were wondering if you have any questions you would like to propose as we are currently creating a FAQ board.

Thanks~

critz

Ummm... I'm preeeety damn sure that by far the single most asked question in the Polish community about your patch is how to make it a standalone language patcher or whether you have plans of making a tool to create one. I've heard a fair share of complaints about how people either didn't know how to install your patch properly or *did* install it correctly only to find it not working for various reasons (for instance, mine completely ignored MoF).

Then there's the issue of portability and the need of reconfiguring thcrap every time you want to copy the games to a different computer, not helped by ZUN's own policy to put replay and save files in the system user folder from DS onward as opposed to the game folder - it *can* be remedied pretty easily if one just feels like creating a batch file as a portable launcher, but having to deal with that *and* thcrap needing to be reconfigured on every computer it's moved to is frankly a huge pain. So is configuring vpatches.

And since because of you guys creating thcrap people behind standalone patches gave up on creating those, it is currently the only way to play DDC and ISC (and from what I've heard, LoLK demo) translated. So, I'm pretty damn sure a lot of people would be extremely grateful if you provided a way to import thcrap translations into an actual hard language patcher that would make a new .exe file, even sacrificing the self-updating aspect in the process (as non-recent games such as DDC should have their translations well-checked by now anyway). Plus, it could create an opportunity to make those hard patches work with the Playism versions of the games, as I've heard from multiple sources that current thcrap simply doesn't work with those.

Tribell

You want my suggestion, here is one.

Make standalone patches for each of the game or at least make it possible to isolate the langauage files from thcrap, so I could do one myself. I've tried to use this program with DDC, and I had lots of compatibility issues such as not being able to launch at all.

Right now, it's a victory of form over substance and in current state this progam is bad. Very bad. Thanks to your "initiative" we don't have any actual translations for the newest games at all. Just as Critz said, I'd gladly threw away those self-updating shenanigans for a normal hard patch and just to release next versions of those translations in hard form over time.

Thanks.

Nazeo

Quote from critz on May 18th, 2015, 02:10 AM

Ummm... I'm preeeety damn sure that by far the single most asked question in the Polish community about your patch is how to make it a standalone language patcher or whether you have plans of making a tool to create one. I've heard a fair share of complaints about how people either didn't know how to install your patch properly or *did* install it correctly only to find it not working for various reasons (for instance, mine completely ignored MoF).

Then there's the issue of portability and the need of reconfiguring thcrap every time you want to copy the games to a different computer, not helped by ZUN's own policy to put replay and save files in the system user folder from DS onward as opposed to the game folder - it *can* be remedied pretty easily if one just feels like creating a batch file as a portable launcher, but having to deal with that *and* thcrap needing to be reconfigured on every computer it's moved to is frankly a huge pain. So is configuring vpatches.

And since because of you guys creating thcrap people behind standalone patches gave up on creating those, it is currently the only way to play DDC and ISC (and from what I've heard, LoLK demo) translated. So, I'm pretty damn sure a lot of people would be extremely grateful if you provided a way to import thcrap translations into an actual hard language patcher that would make a new .exe file, even sacrificing the self-updating aspect in the process (as non-recent games such as DDC should have their translations well-checked by now anyway). Plus, it could create an opportunity to make those hard patches work with the Playism versions of the games, as I've heard from multiple sources that current thcrap simply doesn't work with those.

Mm mm, I hear ya.
We do offer troubleshooting for those who are currently having issues as well as real-time support in the form of IRC ( on freenode channel #thcrap ) and Skype ( add nazeo_aelko_nezen ), whichever your preference.
The only thing we would need from you is your .log file as we will be better to ascertain the issue.

The portability aspect is currently being worked on, so that shall be addressed in the future.

If you do not like updating aspect, simply delete the thcrap_update.dll and the engine will no longer update translations or display new patch neighbors.

The subject of creating static patches/standalone, we unfortunately have no plans in doing so.
We would need to basically double our efforts in doing so with each passing game, making the auto-patch and re-edit the static patch once not once, but potentially 43 times for just one game to have all the translations from each language current.

( The auto-patch is meant to save time and be fully customizable )

We have fixed the Playism version of the game.
Their .dat file was different to the original, so we simply swapped it.

Thank you for your response~
Lemme know if you have any other concerns c:

Quote from Tribell on May 18th, 2015, 11:22 PM

You want my suggestion, here is one.

Make standalone patches for each of the game or at least make it possible to isolate the langauage files from thcrap, so I could do one myself. I've tried to use this program with DDC, and I had lots of compatibility issues such as not being able to launch at all.

Right now, it's a victory of form over substance and in current state this progam is bad. Very bad. Thanks to your "initiative" we don't have any actual translations for the newest games at all. Just as Critz said, I'd gladly threw away those self-updating shenanigans for a normal hard patch and just to release next versions of those translations in hard form over time.

Thanks.

Ouch, scalding words~
Could we take a look at your game and see if we could fix it?
Maybe we will be able to win you over then.

For the issue of future games not having translations, you always can make a contribution and help your peers~

And thank you as well with your response!

Krolo · « Reply #4, on May 19th, 2015, 05:02 PM »

Quote from Nazeo on May 19th, 2015, 02:35 AM

If you do not like updating aspect, simply delete the thcrap_update.dll and the engine will no longer update translations or display new patch neighbors.

I think you are missing the poit here.
It's not like we don't like it. Actually, i think it's an andvantage of this solution, but if could choose between self-updating external aplication and static game patch/modification, i would defenatly choose the second option. It would be great to have both options at once, but i think it's not possible. Automatic update is a cool feature, but it's really not nesecery. For me, it's more convenient to install patch once and forget about it, than to struggle with launcher everytime i want to play a game.

Quote from Nazeo on May 19th, 2015, 02:35 AM

The subject of creating static patches/standalone, we unfortunately have no plans in doing so.
We would need to basically double our efforts in doing so with each passing game, making the auto-patch and re-edit the static patch once not once, but potentially 43 times for just one game to have all the translations from each language current.

Well, if you can't do it yourself, then, like Tribell said:

Quote from Tribell on May 18th, 2015, 11:22 PM

at least make it possible to isolate the langauage files from thcrap, so I could do one myself.

Or just give up at making auto-patchers and make patches similar to these we had from TD backwards.

Quote from Nazeo on May 19th, 2015, 02:35 AM

potentially 43 times

Honestly i really don't care about polish nor any non-english transtations. I prefere to have one solid and well-made english patch, than buch of unfinished multi-language translations.

Nazeo · « Reply #5, on May 20th, 2015, 12:09 AM »

By design, the thcrap_configure.exe should be all you need in order to play the games, no installation path necessary.
Deleting the update .dll is as static as you can get with this engine.

Creating your own isolated language is already possible.
When you select a game and download any of the languages after getting them downloaded with thcrap_configure.exe, you can overwrite the files located in the thpatch folder, reload the game with that shortcut, and it will be present.
We will stand fast at the auto-updating patches; if you are having trouble with using the program we are willing to help you out...!
Again, most of the time we can fix it, and if not, we will get to fixing your unique issue.
We want everyone to be able to play the games just like everyone else has been, in their own language choice.

As far as the comment about unfinished translations...
Translations are not the patch's doing... that would be people going to the wiki and contributing to the dialogue.
We have created a system where anyone can readily place their edits and have them added without them having to know any coding knowledge.
Any contribution, no matter how small is always appreciated~

Thank you as well for commenting!

Tribell · « Reply #6, on May 20th, 2015, 12:44 AM »

As for my feedback, then I'd consider the following:

1. Create some sort of GUI since the command line can be really unituitive at the times.
2. Change the way the language packs are issued. Instead of downloading them all at once, maybe downloading the chosen pack upon patching and downloading them from server or external folder with language files.
3. Make a possibilty to create a separate folder for the patched language files, so I could upload them manually into the game root folder.

If my words were a little harsh, then I apologize.

Off the topic though, I'd like to thank you and your team (especially xJeePx) for your input on the English Translation for the PC-98 games. All this trivia and little references were really educational and the patches itself were spot-on. I had and still have a kick to get back to those games every now and then now that I'm able to understand what they're all about, thanks to you.

Keep up the good work!

Nazeo · « Reply #7, on May 20th, 2015, 03:07 AM »

1. A GUI is in the works for the thcrap_loader.exe and for the thcrap_configure.exe will surely follow once a design is proposed.
2. It's currently set up like so! When you pick a language, you download only that set. For example, if I wanted Polish Translations ( coded as [pl] ), it starts to pull from only that language set and you can see for yourself inside of the folder thpatch.
3. Also in the thpatch folder...!

I have included the information as pictures so you are able to see just how it works :D

Select thcrap_configure.exe
Select Patch(s) you would like
Acknowledge the completed pull
Search Games
Acknowledge Shortcuts (I omitted my directory)
Files are now inside thpatch folder!
Actual text inside from patch

And then of course,

Select the shortcut with your own selected patches
Enjoy~

If at any point during that process there is something wrong, then give us a poke so we can fix it...!
We can't fix what we do not know :c

It's all good :D

Always, currently Nmlgc is creating a project called ReC98 where you are able to play ALL of the PC98 games in a single .exe without any emulators.
So there is hype for that as well c:

We're getting some really good data for our FAQs, really do appreciate the feedback uvu

Kreton · « Reply #8, on May 21st, 2015, 09:59 PM »

I would go against Thcrap for some reasons. Just like Tribell I'm into stand-alone patches.

First thing that hit the spot is auto-update feature. If there is new version of thc, and there's no update file, it's stop working. Game crashes upon start. Running normal japanese version will work without any problems. After update "patched" version work too.

Second thing is selecting packs. I tried to run DDC with English patch + eastern name order but I can't choose both of them. If I choose english patch - it would remove easter name order from the list. If I choose ENO - it remove English patch.

I had some other issues with thc but I don't remember with it was since I do not use thc at all but if I good remember it took me half day to fix it.

And I don't understand why there are thinks like Pirate or Troll translations. It's not fun at all...

And yeah, if you need to work thc - that's it - GUI would be first priority. If you need design concept I can make a sketch for ya since I have something in mind.

(click to show/hide)

*joke*: Maybe instead of messing with thc you guys will mess with Danmakufu and make some new touhou, huh ?*/joke*

So to make it short:
Stand alone patches > thc

Nazeo

First point, that should not be happening...

When you delete the update.dll file, nothing updates.
Not the engine, and neither do the translations.
Therefore if your stuff worked before you deleting the update.dll, it should still keep working once you delete.
However.
If you try to attempt to pull another configuration with the patcher, it simply will not start.
And this github issue is our answer to fixing that.

The other possibility is since the patches and the engine itself are independent, you may have an old version of the patcher itself and the new translated files include features that the old one can not handle and thus will cause the game to crash.

But there is a way for you to disable translation updates only.
Follow this link for more!

Or, you could also compile your own version of the engine straight from the source code, but you might be affected by the version problems as discussed previously.

Only way to tell is if we took at look at it ;3

Second point, thank you for pointing this out.
We will work on making optional patch dependencies
In the meantime, you can go into your your generated .js file and delete the line

Code: [Select]

{"archive": "nmlgc/western_name_order"}

to get your desired effect.

If you ever remember those issues, do let me know, as we said before!
We can't fix what we don't know ;~;

Ah, the more lighthearted translations.
With thcrap, it's all about choice!
Those two: the pirate and troll translations are community driven; meaning they came up with the idea to have the patches and asked us to make them.
And thus, those languages were added to our family!
If they are not your cup of tea, you always can choice to pick other ones c:

All designs for possible GUIs would be greatly appreciated, it certainty would help us get going in the right direction with them.

Funny you should mention danmakufu...
You are able to replace the dialogue and graphics for the touhou games, so you could make your own game if you wanted to.
Just follow this link to learn how!
( We will have music and sound effect replacement on our massive list to add to the engine~)

Thank you very much for your time~

Kreton · « Reply #10, on May 22nd, 2015, 03:45 PM »

Quote from Nazeo

When you delete the update.dll file, nothing updates.
Not the engine, and neither do the translations.
Therefore if your stuff worked before you deleting the update.dll, it should still keep working once you delete.
However.
If you try to attempt to pull another configuration with the patcher, it simply will not start.

The other possibility is since the patches and the engine itself are independent, you may have an old version of the patcher itself and the new translated files include features that the old one can not handle and thus will cause the game to crash.

That was the point. Not update at all. And possibility you mention not apply because game works fine and suddenly stops. It start working again when I update whole thc.

Quote from Nazeo

In the meantime, you can go into your your generated .js file and delete the line
Code: [Select]
{"archive": "nmlgc/western_name_order"}
to get your desired effect.

Thanks, I'll try it when I feel like playing DDC/ISC again - I haven't run it since 3 or 4 month.

Quote from Nazeo

If you ever remember those issues, do let me know, as we said before!
We can't fix what we don't know ;~;

I don't think that I ever remember it again - but if you want fix something then I have an issue for ya.
It's Steam compatibility. When patch is done - it create shortcut. You can only add EXE files to steam... And shortcut is not EXE. You see the point ?

Quote from Nazeo

Ah, the more lighthearted translations.
With thcrap, it's all about choice!
Those two: the pirate and troll translations are community driven; meaning they came up with the idea to have the patches and asked us to make them.
And thus, those languages were added to our family!
If they are not your cup of tea, you always can choice to pick other ones c:

And I do - use english. I'm not even installed polish one even if it's my native (only Polish version I have is Imperishable Night - cause we made this one and it's stand-alone).
And funny story - I run DDC at my pal's PC. When I see troll translation, I go for ALT+F4 then cmd then Format c:. His reaction was priceless.

Quote from Nazeo

All designs for possible GUIs would be greatly appreciated, it certainty would help us get going in the right direction with them.

But it will be only design - sketch-like graphic made in Photoshop, don't expect me to doing anything more. I'll try to do it this weekend since I have some free time and some concept.

Quote from Nazeo

Funny you should mention danmakufu...
You are able to replace the dialogue and graphics for the touhou games, so you could make your own game if you wanted to.
Just follow this link to learn how!
( We will have music and sound effect replacement on our massive list to add to the engine~)

Don't tempt me. I wish to made my own ... ... ... Maybe not Touhou, but still Danmaku game. I have even some ideas for it but... Meh, no skill. And I would use ph3 engine or something similar, not mod for an existing one.

Quote from Nazeo

Thank you very much for your time~

You are welcome.
I'll let ya know if I got something in mind.

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